Managers are aware of what’s happening but they pretend they don’t. For certain leadership got to choose who stays and who goes. It doesn’t seem to amaze me coming from this toxic environment. I knew I was going to get this call today and was on top of the list. Leadership is intimidated by people who speak up and don’t brown nose. I know that I will definitely find a place where I will be appreciated and valued!
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@bw some managers absolutely had a say. Fact.
@ah clearly supervisors and mangers had no say !!! So I say, stop being a blind minion and having no say …. You are in leadership with no real power…. Seems like you are all really just puppets … and just a number just like the rest of us!!! For your next career venture, learn life lessons and be more understanding, supportive and humans !!! We are all the same and none of you leaders are better than us
@bk hope as a human you can live with that … at the end people leaders also have a Centene number and you are all numbers as well
PL here. If we tell someone they are going to be RIFd before the notification date and are caught, that is grounds for immediate termination. So yes, we often know a lot and can’t talk about it, it’s part of the job.
Plenty of PLs were also RIFd today. VPs, Directors, no one is immune.
@ah exactly
Whether the PL knew about it or not, I don’t really understand why some people are so obsessed on that point.
Some PLs may have known because their teams were directly affected, while others may not have known because they were on the layoff list themselves or were not affected by the VSP or layoffs at all.
What difference does it make whether a particular PL knew or didn’t know? I’m genuinely curious whether this focus is about understanding the situation or simply to get some hit on the post?
You're dancing around this issue with semantics.
"Not ALL PL level..."
No one's saying ALL. There are exceptions to every rule. What is being said, is that for the most part, PLs know more than what they proclaim to know, and you continued doing just that with your response."We didn’t know before anyone else"
Sure, Jan.
Look, you're worried. You don't want any backlash, mutiny, or God forbid, anything more dire happening, as a result of this enormous clusterfuk that everyone's going through. We get it. You're not a major player, mover or shaker. But you are a PL. You do* have access to channels and information that the average report under you does not. So don't act as if you weren't looped-in well in advance, and are now d-mbfounded at the "surprise news" everyone received "at about the same time". Again: semantics. "Well I wasn't notified until ABOUT the same time as you peons, so that means I'm off the hook in terms of being involved in any way shape or form with this debacle, right??!!"
Stop trying to act as if you had ZERO INPUT, or had NO KNOWLEDGE of how the gears were turning, because that would mean you're either so incompetent, clueless, unware and unplugged-in to leadership, that you weren't looped in on anything along the way. Highly improbable, if not downright impossible. You really expect people to believe that? HA!
No one's buying what you're trying to sell, so just cut the sh!t, Gertrude.
But once you were informed of who took the VSP if you had anymore you had to lay off? You weren't in on any conversations about who would then have to go? It makes no sense that's the case when performance reviews are taken into account, PIPS, but also how high your salary is and how much you fit with the direction of the company. Supervisors may not have much say but managers do in some areas of the company.
Some PLs were very aware for about a month or two! Sometimes people casually say things that don't quite add up in the moment but make sense in hindsight.
@aa that is certainly not correct at all PL level. We didn’t know before anyone else and we didn’t know until the emails went out to employees who on the teams applied for it. We got notifications of who our team members were that were accepted, not who applied, about the same time the individuals were notified.
PL are given strict rules they have to follow along with a script of what to say.
They are not going to jeopardize their job to give a person a heads up ahead of time.
I'm in management and this entire thread is ludicrous. No, direct people leaders did not know about any of this. Maybe upper upper leadership did, but directors and below did not.
So there weren’t any PL RIF’d?
So in other words, yes, you were in on the decision-making process.
So yes, you knew, you know, and while you may not know everything, you definitely know more than you're letting on.
Thanks for confirming.
I’m a PL and I knew NOTHING about any of this until London made the announcement. My area ~should~ be safe, but I can say that at least up through Director level, they were blindsided too. Now when it comes to after the initial announcement, I cannot say. As of right now, I STILL do not know any details beyond what has been publicly announced. What I CAN say that in previous layoffs it’s not like corporate just gives managers names to cut- they are told how many positions need to be eliminated and managers have to choose. In most instances they then look at who on their team has the lowest metrics, who is on corrective action, etc and those are the people that get cut first.
@aa true that!
@a8 PR dept
No. Not all managers know or knew. Esp if they are being laid off themselves.
Of course they do.
They're just afraid of being on unhinged disgruntled workers' radar, so to try to protect themselves from having any part of this decision-making process which is pi55ing off a lot of people for many different reasons. They think it's safer for THEM to pretend to YOU that they've been left completely in the dark. A lot of people are on medication (or off what they should be taking) and just angry in general at how all of this AI and outsourcing and layoffs en masse are happening, and managers don't want anyone's desperation and rage aimed at them personally. They can see how this is agonizingly affecting people, and they don't want the smoke.
So they lie to your face and gaslight you, and act as if they're just as likely to be cut as anyone else, and "we're all in this together" and let's all just be patient and calm and professional, and keep working; while those who make the big decisions about layoffs do it all on their own, without any of middle management's input.
Managers know what's going on, and who's being affected, way ahead of time.
They might not know the granular details until the last minute, but they definitely had a say in the process, were tasked with creating/culling lists, and have been meeting with and being informed by their skip levels of the general gist about what's going on, and when.
Trust and know: they're full of sh!t and shaking in their boots.
@a5 What dept do you work in?
I’m sorry to hear this happened to you, but as a PL I can say no, not all of us were included in decisions, nor were we all aware this would happen.
So sorry this happened… did they at least give you a decent severance package?
OP I totally agree with you on this. The managers knew this was coming. In our team meeting this morning our PL refused to tell us even when directly asked about it, claiming they didn’t know what was going on. That was followed up by a 1:1 an hour later where they broke the news I was being canned. Why such secrecy about this. Just be honest and transparent.
@a2
Yeah it seems like this depends on the department which is really weird. On some teams, senior managers did give their input and were apart of those conversations.
Prayers go out to you
I understand your upset but in claims all the managers and supervisors were just called into a meeting and told about it. They had no say or any prior knowledge of anything. So to paint this picture that they are working together is just false.
Is it just a mere coincidence that my PL/manager and our director are out this entire week….? 🙃