Thread regarding Cigna layoffs

yes. this bias is happening. cognizant was sued because of this:

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2024-cognizant-h1b-visas-discriminates-us-workers/

i think the admin of this thread is indian.
all posts related to the indian manager disappeared.

I think it was a real eye opener for the female Indian manager to write a multi paragraph explanation about her bias and discrimination when hiring at Cigna but was removed (it had -25 down votes this afternoon)

It wasn’t political it was confirmation Indians want to hire Indians and explained there are more “reliable” and set up calls to handle an issue

When I look back at many years of all the Indians I have worked with some good some were Ok but she confirmed how Indians come to the USA get to a position with hiring ability and always hire someone with their beliefs not based on talent comments like we don’t want to see people succeed and it’s “competitive”

Guess that’s why we have so many Sr. Directors and above all part of the bias club at Cigna

Time to look for a corporation with old school values of US talent EB, General Dynamics, Raytheon all US Defense companies do not offshore secrets like we do at Cigna to pretend revenue is up year after year with “savings” masked as AI and terminations

TLDR: Affinity bias is real, not specific to any certain race like this thread suggests, and Cigna hasn't done much about it but could very easily improve with HR personnel that actually care.

This issue isn't specific to a certain race at Cigna. I've been a hiring manager for 10 years here and my own manager who is of a different race and gender always prefers candidates who are her same race and gender. I was recently filling a position and had three good candidates but one of the three had clear shortcomings compared to the other two candidates yet she preferred the one, who was the same race and gender as her. This has also applied to the only two promotions that have occured on our team in the last four years. I also experienced it with my previous manager's input on hiring on a different team.

This type of bias is called affinity bias or similarity bias. It was one of many biases that were covered in an optional training I did at Cigna on leadership. How that training is still optional I have no idea.

It is hard to overcome even if you are the hiring manager who is aware of your own bias. I tried something once when hiring a role to overcome any bias I may have: I asked the Cigna HR recruiter to remove/mask all names on the resumes before sending them to me. The recruiter asked why and when I told her about removing bias she still didn't get it. She did it but it was a manual process involving printing the resumes, using white out, and scanning them back in. Maybe with AI tools now it could be more automatic. Or an option in "doesntWorkday". I also recommended to another HR person that we have the option to remove names from initial screenings and it went nowhere.

You would think with a company of our size there would be better requirements on interviewing a certain number of candidates. And while HR does track race/gender statistics at an org chart team level, it's not resulted in anything IMO.

@f7 You are spot on and a very wise person. Really liked the way you worded your post.

There are real cultural differences between Mexican and Indian immigrant communities when it comes to work, family, and career expectations. Many Mexican families I’ve seen are incredibly hardworking. Parents work long hours, sometimes two shifts, and are willing to take difficult or low-paying jobs to support their families. I respect that sacrifice.
During COVID, many universities were struggling financially and became increasingly dependent on international enrollment. Some master’s programs lowered their admission standards to zero, and one-year programs became a pathway for international students, particularly from India, to establish themselves in North America and eventually bring family members over. Personally, when hiring, I’m cautious about unfamiliar degrees or COVID era programs that lack demonstrated academic rigor.
I also believe leadership should be based on merit. When people in positions of authority favor candidates from their own network or community, it creates a perception and reality of unfairness.
Instead of calling any country the center of AI and innovation, let’s look at measurable results such as research, patents, products, breakthroughs, and technologies that actually change the world. Innovation should be demonstrated, not claimed. When was the last AI or Healthcare invention from India? Was it in 2020 when the country used the global technology and knowledge to build its COVID test?

@ex Mexicans didn’t take anything over, so that is just plain false.

@cz They don't want to bring this up because it would be viewed as "biased" or "discriminatory" towards Indian people. It's funny, not funny cause I remember going back into the 80's & 90's when they said how much of a threat Mexico was and how they were going to take over this country by letting uncontrolled immigration run rampant. Oh, how times have changed and the perspective has shifted. Now it's the Indian people who are coming over to this country with uncontrolled immigration. I also recall when I was in school back in the mid to late 80's how there were so few Indians in the colleges I attended. Now, it's a much different story.

Indians hire Indians. Period.

the government really needs to investigate on the H1B fraud in India.

https://cis.org/Parsing-Immigration-Policy/Industrialized-Fraud-H1B-Visa-Program

and they should pass the HIRE act:
https://rsmus.com/insights/services/business-tax/hire-act-proposes-reshape-outsourcing-excise-tax.html

we are the modern native americans.
now i know how it feels to be displaced when the mayflower arrived.
history repeating itself.
it’s not mexico who we should be worried about.

How do we get CNN or Fox News to investigate and report on this issue?
The American people deserve to know the facts, not rumors, political talking points, or silence. When Americans are struggling to find stable work, afford housing, and simply make ends meet, we should be asking serious questions about why American jobs are being taken away or redirected to serve the interests of other nations.
Many Americans have nowhere else to call home and are already struggling to survive. They deserve to know where their jobs are going, how these decisions are being made, and who benefits from them.
This is not about politics. It is about transparency, accountability, and putting the facts before the American people.

@ac People downvoting you itself is a testament of how they don’t want to own their shortcomings and not hear an honest perspective . lol they have no clue how Indians actually DO NOT want to hire other Indians but are left with no choice.

@c7
“ Are you all saying that the demographics of the employee population is no longer representative of the demographics compared to 5-6 years ago?”

From the way I see it yes. 75% of the IT population are either Indian H1Bs or Indian outsource (ie HIH). Just look at Cigna’s IT departments and other companie’s IT depr.

Wait, let me get this right...

Are you all saying that the demographics of the employee population is no longer representative of the demographics compared to 5-6 years ago?

Are you all saying that the demographics of the employee population is no longer representative of the demographics of those served by the company (patients, prescribers, etc.)?

@b6 I feel exactly same about our team

@ah They will hire a random incomoetent white women or white man to show they are not biased but the problem is still there.

@a9 Our director exclusively recruits candidates from Infosys and TCS because he receives a kickback for every successful hire.

@OP This is absolutely true.

i am not indian nor white but i am experiencing this too.

one time there is healthcare company that i applied to directly and got ignored. 3 months later i am still seeing their job posting but this time i got an interview thru a headhunter (indian recruiter). the hiring manager is white and she said they are planning to replace all 5 of there offshore SWE in india that’s why they are hiring. i was surprised why its taking them a long time. anyway, i passed the first level and was handed over to the techlead, who is an indian woman. the first thing she said was “you have a good smile”, which is an odd first comment. i thought she was softening the blow and had already decided she doesnt like me even before the interview. true enough, i didn’t pass. they said i dont have the set of skills they are looking for. mind you, the skills sets they are looking for is a niche market that i have 12 years on my belt and have been employed by 2 companies prior Cigna because of that. their indian offsource devs have only been developing with that tool for less than 5 years. go figure.

the other weird thing is, her questions are not related to the job description, like she’s intentionally asking questions that i will fail.
makes you wonder if she’s failing candidates on purpose so she could say “there are no qualified US citizens that can replace the offshore resources”..

i did hear a podcast where a US indian IT gets a cut of an Indian IT’s salary as long as he/she employs them in his/her company. so makes you wonder.

I believe in equal opportunity regardless of race or ethnicity. But after experiencing this repeatedly, I can’t ignore the pattern.

In one interview, 3 of 5 panelists rated me 5/5 across the board, while 2 gave me 1/5 on every question. The hiring manager said those scores were a serious concern. I later learned the 2 were Indian and the company hired an Indian candidate with far less experience.
In another case, an Indian VP told me they were there to chill, discouraged my questions, then told HR I wasn’t a good fit, while an offer had already gone to an Indian candidate.
In another, an Indian CTO had me solve what appeared to be a real company problem, then ghosted me. Months later, they hired an Indian candidate with little experience.

Repeated patterns deserve to be questioned.
And one more thing, Indian candidates are not automatically cheaper. Compensation is based on the role, skills, experience, and market! Not ethnicity.
Race should never determine who gets hired or who gets a fair shot. People should be judged by qualifications and performance not ethnicity or community.

This is absolutely true. If I see an Indian name for the recruiter or the hiring manager, I don’t even bother applying. It’ll just be a waste of my time

how can we have our policy makers know about this.

is there a polling place or signature gathering of IT workers who had experience descrimination in their job search