In the US (for ExxonMobil), the PIL option seems to be three months.
Is it the same for Imperial (Canada) or do they have to offer more, especially if you have 20 or 30 years service?
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Getting put on a PIP is not grounds for termination - only failing one is.
And refusing to go on a PIP is willful misconduct and you can be fired for cause and they can deny severance in that case.
You’re only owed severance if they terminate you without cause.
If you pass the PIP, they don’t terminate you. The second NSI though is now grounds for immediate termination (second NSI in 5 years) and they should also pay severance for that.
They offer the three month PIL (first NSI only) if you really don’t want to go on the PIP.
Not everyone has the stomach to deal with the PIP experience. Regardless of how much $$ will eventually be paid out for severance next year, if you get another NSI and/or finally get terminated as part of the “transformation” (i.e. dumpster fire)
@qm downright pip refusal can be viewed as wilful misconduct/insubordination?
Just play along, consider this is a 90 days company sponsored acting lesson. Transferable skills for the future.
You can refuse to do the PIP, as that alone would not hold enough weight in court for dismissal with cause. You might rather play along and pretend to participate to make it easier for your lawyer.
Nice try managment or HR, I will say it again. NOT true. As long as you are not terminated with cause, you are entitled to Pay In Lieu and stat & CL severance. The law is the law.
They have to pay you severance if you fail a PIP but you can’t refuse to do a PIP in the first place. That’s the problem with the scenario. If you just don’t want to do the PIP, you’re stuck with the PIL as an option, which is only 3 months. That’s the whole problem.
Can Imperial ask you to chose between PIP and PIL (Ontario, but other provinces are similar)
No, an employer in Ontario cannot legally force you to choose between passing a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) and accepting pay in lieu of notice (PIL) with no severance.Under the Ontario Employment Standards Act (ESA), an employee can only be terminated without notice or termination/severance pay if they are guilty of "wilful misconduct, disobedience or wilful neglect of duty." Simply failing a PIP or underperforming does not meet this incredibly high threshold. Consequently, your statutory rights to termination pay, and potentially statutory severance pay, cannot be signed away or used as an ultimatum in exchange for a PIL package. Why This Ultimatum is Likely Illegal Statutory Minimums Are Mandatory: Your employer must pay you statutory termination notice (or pay in lieu) and statutory severance (if eligible) if you fail a PIP and they fire you. They cannot withhold these minimum entitlements.Constructive Dismissal Risk: Forcing an employee to choose between an unachievable PIP and leaving without full legal entitlements can be considered a constructive dismissal under Ontario common law.The "Just Cause" Trap: Employers often use PIPs to try to build a case for termination with cause. However, Ontario courts have consistently ruled that ordinary performance issues do not equal "just cause" for dismissal without pay
Spoke to employment lawyer, there is no legal grounds to refuse the PIP, unless it’s extremely unreasonable.
For first PIP in last 5 years, the choice is either the 3 month PIL (payment in lieu) or else the PIP.
Sad what to see how this company is treating their employees.
We have laws in Canada. Commonlaw severance is a legal requirement for companies of size and payroll of Imperial. It is not optional or discretionary. Also is it not reserved for employees with high years service. It applies to everyone. Dont let them lie to you to save payout Know your rights. 30 minutes / $350 with a lawyer and you will better understand your position. Whatever you do, don't sign until you are educated. After that, it's on you.
I believe the offer is just the PIL (3 months salary) and no other severance offered. Otherwise you have to do PIP.
While this is commonplace in US, I’m surprised we’re seeing this in Canada now? Has anyone gotten this and accepted PIL? (And received just 3 months salary and no further severance?)
@fb yes got mine too last week but am not NRE. Policy says we're supposed to receive and email with election options but haven't received anything yet and don't know what details it will provide. Unless details specify anything besides 3months PIL and sign this waiver then that's definitely not fair severance.
Has anyone actually seen the details? Is it just 3months PIL plus other severance?
Or just 3 months PIL ?
I can tell you that PIL is definitely being offered in Canada, just got this, though I am retirement eligible. The offer is PIL and retire or else go through PIP. This is first NSI.
PIL offered is 3 months salary.
This is frequently offered in US, surprised we’re seeing in Canada also.
Anyone else getting this ?
This is exactly what I’m trying to understand - has anyone been through this? Considering no other NSI/PIP in the last five years?
@cw so if take PIL option, you get the statutory + common law + extra 3 months from PIL?
Not true, in Canada you get a PIL and if you qualify, a statutory severance and a commonlaw severance. Use Copilot or contact an employment lawyer if you dont believe. Its all spelled out very clearly.
PIL is not an option in Canada. You'd get a normal severance
Just to clarify - this is when you get NSI for appraisal and they offer PIP or PIL - can Imperial get away with offering only 3 months for PIL ? (Even if you have a lot of years experience)